Entrepreneurs & Government - CA Fires, AI, Regulation, Prop 13 | Senator Ben Allen

Join us for an insightful conversation with California State Senator Ben Allen as he discusses the complexities of governing through crises, including the devastating wildfires affecting California communities. Senator Allen shares his firsthand experiences and challenges of managing disaster recovery, addressing bureaucratic inefficiencies, and the role entrepreneurs can play in supporting these efforts.

In this candid interview, Senator Allen also dives into pressing topics such as artificial intelligence regulation, the future of Prop 13, environmental sustainability, and the importance of public-private partnerships. Gain valuable insights into how California plans to balance innovation, economic growth, and regulatory frameworks to ensure a resilient and prosperous future.

Whether you're an entrepreneur, policymaker, or concerned citizen, this conversation offers meaningful perspectives on how communities and government can collaborate effectively.

Hosted / Video Production by the Kinn, in Venice, CA.

#CaliforniaPolitics #WildfireRecovery #AIregulation #PublicPrivatePartnerships #Entrepreneurship #BenAllen #Innovation00:00

Introduction and Welcome
00:29 Addressing the Fires: Challenges and Responses
05:02 Understanding Government Levels and Functions
09:04 Entrepreneurial Opportunities and Government Interaction
14:45 California's Innovation and Regulatory Landscape
26:51 Audience Q&A
29:26 Governmental Dysfunction and Deferred Maintenance
30:02 COVID Loans and LLC Costs
31:35 Regulating AI and Protecting Creativity
34:11 Challenges of Starting a Mining Company in California
36:18 Prop 13 and Real Estate Tax Issues
39:38 Rebuilding After Fires and Climate Resilience
43:56 Toxic Waste and Fire Cleanup
49:54 Engaging with Government and Procurement Processes
55:52 Final Thoughts and Call to Action

Transcript

Evan Meyer: 0:40

So, let's get started. Senator Ben Allen. Round of applause, please. You hear a lot about politicians. This guy is the best. I've known him forever, and he's not a traditional politician of whatever you see on the news. He's an incredible thinker. He's a brilliant man and a friend. And I'm honored to have him sit here with me today. And let's get started. It would be remiss if we didn't just say something about the fires. Right. So how is that you, you've managed this district that experienced the most difficult portion of this catastrophe. How have you, what does your day to day look like now? What are some of the challenges and opportunities and what's in your power to do about

Senator Ben Allen: 1:28

it? So good morning, everybody. So great to see everyone. It's a great, great turnout and I appreciate it very much. I represent a state senate district. Our districts are about a million people a piece. It's enormous. But my district includes the entire Palisades Fire. It also goes all the way out to Hollywood, the whole coastal South Bay. So it's a lot of different communities from Palos Verdes all the way up to Calabasas all the way out to to the Hollywood Bowl. And certainly this wonderful community here in Venice. What a difficult few weeks it's been. This beautiful community that I know well. We've been members of the Key Light Israel Synagogue for a long time up there. You know, I grew up in Santa Monica, so, you know, we're kind of sister communities. So many of my friends from there. And just to have the whole community burn down to a crisp. Right in front of our eyes. I've been up in the zone a number of times now. Of course, we've moved from shock to anger. I think people are very upset justifiably about losing their homes, losing their community. It's been immensely difficult. And there's now this incredibly challenging. process involved with, with the, with the, with the cleaning of it all and the rebuilding. And, and there's so many factors to this. And part of the challenge is that everybody's flying a little blind. I think you're, you know, people want to think the government knows exactly what it's doing. And I think anyone who's worked close to government knows it's just a bunch of people trying their best for the most part. And if, you know, yes, we have. Federal support, you know, who go from disaster to disaster, and that's immensely helpful. Quite frankly, I, I can't, I mean, I, I can't imagine that the president would consider disbanding FEMA given their immense experience. But, you know, having their help is really helpful because they, they go from disaster to disaster. Most of us have never experienced a disaster. Most people have never built a home, right? I mean, most people, you buy a home, you rent a home, you don't build a home. If you have built a home, you've never built on a toxic fire site. And with all the challenges associated with that. And yet we're now having to, we're asking this entire community, two major communities in the L. A. area, with all of the challenges and the tariffs and the supply chain issues and labor shortages and immigration deportations, to rebuild two massive communities in a matter of months that have just been flattened, that are filled with toxic ash. And so it's really hard. It's hard, I love hard work, but what makes this one hard also is just the human tragedy behind it all. I mean, having to look people in the eye. who've lost everything. Some people have lost friends. They've lost their lives. And and so, so much of our work right now is just focused on support. How do we help people hook up with insurance? How do we get them the information they need? How do we get them back to their sites? But how do we, if they're going back to their sites, how do we make sure that they're gonna be protecting themselves? Because it is dangerous to go back. How do we get the schools reopened? How do we get the kids you know, from one side of the community to the other? And, and, you know, it's working with law enforcement, and the fire, and the insurance commissioner, and the water has been contaminated. And how do we, you know, get people fresh water that's gonna be clean? How do we deal with the fact that you've got, you know, people who lost their homes, and there's people in the same zone who didn't lose their homes, and yet it's still pretty uninhabitable? There's the utilities. So, there's just many layers to this work. And it also, of course, involves a lot of different layers of government. And I think we're also seeing some of the dysfunction, quite frankly, of L. A. governance. Who's in charge? Right? Is it the mayor? Is it the county supervisor? Is it the Congress? Is it FEMA? Is it the state legislature? The governor? You know, the city council member? You know, it's interesting talking to my colleagues who are state senators in other parts of the, of the state. When they walk in the room, they're the big cheese. Because, you know, their, you know, their counties are, you know, 100, 000 people live in the county. They represent a million people. But when I walk into the room as representing a million people, the mayor's got, you know, three and a half million constituents. The supervisor's got two million constituents. The congressman's got a similar, you know, so there's all these cooks in the kitchen. And and, and different skills and different interests and different focus. And so that's a whole nother layer of challenge too and, you know, my, my job, my, I see my job, quite frankly, as supporting their efforts, giving whatever support we can from the state, advocating for the community, trying to get resources, we've just got a major package of funding through from the state, and then just pushing the state agencies to provide whatever help they can to the locals and the feds that are doing the bulk of the on the ground work of the, of the, of the cleanup and recovery.

Evan Meyer: 5:40

Yeah, it just. When we talk about levels of government, does that make sense to everybody? Okay, does everyone think they know all the levels of government? Okay does anyone know what a county supervisor is? Do you know what they do? Do you know the difference between a state senator and a federal senator? Alright, good. Good, good, good. There's a couple of them. Yeah, it's like there's something like 20%. Some studies say 20 percent of people understand civics in general and even less get involved in it. But just for another benefit, is anyone here involved in civically active businesses? Raise your hands. Okay. Anyone using A. I. Or any of the emerging technologies right now as part of their business? Got it. Anyone use AI in general? No.

Audience: 6:32

Can't help it.

Evan Meyer: 6:35

I'm sorry. Civics is different. Civics is your responsibility as a person versus getting involved in working for the government or necessarily being a politician. Civics is the understanding of government and what's, and what's required there. But Can you explain a little bit, Ben about the levels of government and why it's so important to understand and, and what, how that can impact people in terms of getting involved?

Senator Ben Allen: 7:02

It's funny, you know, Americans love decentralization, right, and yet we also want the government to function decisively when we need it. And those two are very they're in discord. They're in Dorsecourt. So, so we've got all these levels of government, right? You were on a neighborhood council. That's a very micro experience, right? It's, it's, it's literally the people in the neighborhood who get together and elect a neighborhood council that advocates for the, for the neighborhood. You have a city council and a city government with a mayor on, in charge who, who, who oversees the city. Above that, you've got the county government with a, a five member board of supervisors. No elected executive. That's changing, by the way. We're going, we, we just all voted. to, to create a new elected executive for the county, which I think is a good thing, quite frankly, because I think it's gonna create some locus of responsibility and accountability. Above that, you've got the state government with a legislature that mirrors Congress, an assembly, and a senate and a governor. And then, of course, there's the federal government with the, the house representatives, the state, so the U. S. senate, and then the president. And each of these layers of government take care of various aspects. of life, and it's amazing how how complicated it can get. I, I interned when I was in college for the County Supervisor, Zev Yaroslavsky, at the time. And I, I sat in the front, and I would just be listening to all the, all the folks handling the calls that were coming in, and half the time the call was Oh, thank you. That's a city problem. Let me send you over to the council member. Oh, that's a state problem Let me send you to the state legislator. That's a federal problem And you these people got so good at knowing, you know, what would who to direct people to? And unfortunately But it's difficult. It's it's ridiculous, right? We ask people to have to understand civics just to get basic services from their government and I will say Part of our responsibility as a, as elected officials and we all have staff is to really get to know everybody we work with at every level of government so we can work more seamlessly together. But you know what ends up happening? Politicians, sometimes they've got egos, they've got, they're competitive, you know, sometimes people don't work well together. I'm really blessed to have a group of local electeds and, and, and, you know, right up and down the chain where we've got good working relationships, but some of my colleagues get, have terrible relationships with some of their, their, their politicians and that can get really in the way of their constituent service work as well. So, you know, it's not necessary to know every detail of every of every institution, but it is important, I think, when people wonder sometimes why why, why the messaging can get a little jumbled. It's because you do have a lot of cooks in the kitchen. And there's beauty to the system, right? We, we, we, we do try to decentralize because we don't, we're not a monarchy. We don't like centralizing power. We don't like handing everything over to one person. But that does sometimes lead to a, a, a messiness.

Evan Meyer: 9:44

Yeah. What, what would you say to entrepreneurs either looking to help either, I guess in a few ways, either help during catastrophes like this and be supportive and create things that can be really be valuable for prevention mechanisms or or even to help now. But also in addition to that, where are the opportunities in general and government to either get funding or create the sort of public private partnerships that can let them, work to achieve California's goals.

Senator Ben Allen: 10:13

Yeah. So I think one of the great things entrepreneurs are always good at thinking about two steps, three steps, four steps ahead. You know, right after the fire, we had so many people give blankets and clothes and food and water. We, we couldn't handle it all. So that was the obvious stuff. People wanted to help in a way that was obvious to them, but what they didn't always think of was, what are, what are people gonna need next week? Or what are the, what are the other things that aren't, aren't immediately obvious? I'll give you one little example. There was a synagogue in West LA that called up the synagogue in pal, in, in Palisades and said, Hey, what can we do to help you? And, and of course the people in the palisade said, I'll call you back. I mean, they literally lost their homes. They lost, they lost everything. They, they were no place to think about what they even needed. And then the the synagogue in West L. A. then called them back and said, You know what? Check it out. You guys are going to come to our synagogue on Friday night. We're going to give you our sanctuary. We're going to have a toy drive for your kids. And we're going to give you food and clothing for your families that have lost their homes. And you're going to take over the synagogue. And, and, and have a ceremony, a celebration of healing. Hundreds of people showed up. These are people who had been, every single person from the synagogue had been displaced. I mean, if they hadn't lost their homes, they were evacuated at least. These are people that wouldn't necessarily normally go. These are people that wouldn't necessarily normally call up for mental health. But they needed, when they got the email, they came. Because they wanted, they desperately wanted a sense of community. And they wanted a place of healing. And I just bring that up to make the point that the folks at this place in West L. A. understood what the people in the Palisades needed more than, than even they did at the time, because they were in such shock. So, you know, I, I think proactively about the kinds of needs that are going to be in this community. This is a community that was vibrant and living and, and, and engaging, and now it's literally, they, they can't, the, the people are still there. Thankfully, thankfully, we, we, you know, we, we did lose some people, but it was, the casualties were actually pretty low, given the amount of destruction. But, but, but the community itself is, is now dispersed. Lots of people living in our midst, right? I mean, I met someone whose sister is living with with him, you know, displaced in, right now in Venice. So they've got to re enroll their kids in schools. They're trying to figure out what their next steps are. They need to, they, they've, they're off, their home offices have burned down. They've, they're missing their documents. So what kinds of support can we give them? You know, when they've lost, when they've lost the home office, when they've lost a lot of their documents, when they've, you know, so from a business to business perspective, I think there's ways you guys can be proactive. When it comes to helping the government, I, I've, I've, I'm, you know, I will say, and I know you've experienced this too. It can be sometimes a little frustrating because the government's bureaucratic. The government has a way of doing things. The procurement processes are difficult. And sometimes, I've had a lot of entrepreneurs, even in the last couple of weeks, say, Hey, I've got this great product. It's going to solve the problem. We're going to get water, da, da, da. And, you know, hey, just get me in front of a couple of people. And it's hard for them to break through. They've got some product that they think solves the problem. Sometimes there's already a solution that they don't quite, they're not aware of. And sometimes it just doesn't fit neatly into the way that the bureaucrats that are handling the recovery think. And so I just encourage you to be creative. Don't don't be discouraged when you have trouble getting through. Be willing to modify your message and your product and, and actually listen closely. Don't just come with a solution that you've already figured out without listening to the people you're trying to pitch it to because you're going to have to modify your product in a way that's going to meet their needs. And it's hard sometimes to get in the, if you're an entrepreneur. You do not have the mind of a bureaucrat. And if you're a bureaucrat, you do not have the mind of an upstart. You are separate types of people. And you are beautiful people, and you both add a lot to our society, and we need you to work together. But you are like oil and water, and water, and oil and vinegar. They blend nicely actually, but you know, and, and so just so, and we, and honestly, we can help you. We can help you translate between those two worlds because politicians are kind of, we have one fit. We have to be entrepreneurial. It's part of, you got to put yourself forward and run for office and pitch yourself and, and be risk taking. And bureaucrats aren't like that. But we also work within the bureaucracy and we, and we know the massive systemic challenges that they're trying to solve. And so I would just encourage you to be. You've got to be creative, but also put your mind in the systems thinking of someone who's trying to run a massive undertaking like re, like, you know, cleaning up and rebuilding the Palisades and understand that whatever product you're bringing to them is just, doesn't necessarily fit into, into the way they're thinking about it. That doesn't mean that you can't figure out a way to incorporate it, but you've got to think, you've got to really use all your, all your creativity and, and people skills. To, to figure out how to do it. And of course, there's also going to be a lot of personal actors in all of this. Individuals that are going to be stepping up to help the community whether the government likes it or not. And there's ways to kind of insert yourself. But I, I just encourage a lot of, a lot of creativity and, and trying to get your head into the mind of the challenges of the government. in order to help the government.

Evan Meyer: 15:14

Do you think that some of those challenges, how does California recognize some of those challenges? There's a lot of regulatory, it could be bureaucracy. What does California think in general? California, the state of California. How do you say it responds to knowing that those things exist for entrepreneurs? And, and where does it sit on that? Is it trying to make it easier? Is it trying to make it? How is it better? How is it engaging the entrepreneurial solution problem solving mindset into the ways that, you know, engineers and entrepreneurs, it's a different, like you said, they solve problems differently,

Senator Ben Allen: 15:47

you know, right? Remember that the government is not some coherent blob that's ready to always roll in a predictable way, right? It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it really is a reflection of the wild diversity. That is our society. And so many different people in government come with different perspectives and different priorities. Certainly there is a lot of pride in California's entrepreneurial leadership and a lot of interest in focusing on California's entrepreneurial leadership. And I think you see that right up to the governor. I mean, he himself was an entrepreneur. He, you know, he's close to the tech sector, particularly in San Francisco. You can see how much he wants to help grow the sector, and you see a lot of individuals that are very interested. You also have other individuals that are pushing other agendas. Labor rights, environmental protections, safety, you know, there may be special interest groups that are trying to push, you know, for their particular solution, or, or try to protect their piece of the, of the puzzle. The realtors are an incredibly powerful block up in Sacramento. I mean, I, I, one of the interesting things about being up there is you just get a window into these incredible, this incredible range of special interest groups that have, that have built a niche for themselves. And part of what they're trying to do, quite frankly, is to protect their prerogatives. You know, we have, there's a tied house rules. I mean, there's things I never knew about before I got up there. But, you know, you can't sell. If you're a, if you're a, a, a, a liquor, if you're a distiller, a whiskey distiller, you can't sell directly. to a consumer. You have to go through a distributor. You can do it directly at a very limited level at the distillery, but you can't just start shipping on your own to the general public. Because there's these people right in the middle called the distributors who have created a niche for themselves and they protect it like the devil. You know, you've got, you've got all these different groups out there that are fighting each other. The cosmetic surgeons are fighting against the I didn't even know there was a difference between them until I got up there, but it turns out there is and they hate each other.

Audience: 17:51

You know,

Senator Ben Allen: 17:52

the podiatrists want to work further up the leg. You know, the leg people are like, no, you stay to the foot. You know, you got the nurses fighting against the doctors, fighting against the hospitals, fighting against the insurance industry, fighting against the pharmaceuticals, but they all lock arms against the trial lawyers. Right? So there's just this kind of massive mix of, of, of battle. And it's ridiculous sometimes that it's the legislature that has to cast judgment, but we don't have a better place to do it. But then it becomes also about power, and persuasion, and relationships, and who gets in with the leg Hey, are you going to be with us? We're the docs. You got to stand with us against these against these other guys. And, and, and that's, that's, that's a lot, that's ultimately, that's a lot of what ends up happening up in Sacramento, is these kind of power battles that are beyond what most people are thinking about, certainly not, these, these are not things that motivated me to run for office when I was putting my name forward. So, I would encourage you to just be aware of all that happening. I think a lot of entrepreneurs oftentimes get kind of lost in the shuffle because you guys are so busy doing your work, and, you know, it's usually the more established folks, Once they're kind of established as a bigger business, they then join the chambers and join the organizations that are out there advocating for whatever cause. Tech has a strong voice in Sacramento, but it's dominated by the big guys. Right? It's dominated by Google and Facebook, you know, those guys. Right? And, and so, So I, I think that, that, so one of my, one of the things I'm constantly trying to do in my job is say who's not at the table, who's important to our state that is not, that's too busy actually doing the work than to be up here in Sacramento in my face asking for a special carve out. And so I would just say, you know, one of, I guess what I would say is it's so, I'm a pre, I love the fact that everyone's here trying to learn a little bit about our system because as they say in Sacramento, if you're not, You know, if you're not at the table, you're on the menu, right? And, and you know, the government is not going away. They will not leave you alone, right? Because there's always someone out there that, that is going to find something about your business model. They're going to want to regulate some other group, some other folk person that sees a threat or an opportunity. And I just encourage you for the sake of your career to not ignore politics and government. As much as, you know, focus on your work, focus on your product. Of course, that's gotta be your number one, but don't ignore what's happening in the political realm because you know, the political realm has a lot of power over the work you do ultimately. And and we need the voices of entrepreneurs up in Sacramento more than ever. We rely on your creativity. We rely on you staying here and building businesses here and hiring people here. And that's an important part of what makes California great. We know that our state is expensive. We know the costs are high. We know we've got, you know, a lot of regulation. And so we really rely on P, you know, we, we, we also know we're never going to compete in pencil manufacturing or kind of, you know, lower level Tic Tac stuff. We, we're going to rely on the, on the brain. Driven products that you're working on, on biotech, on the stuff coming out of our universities. You know, those are the kind of things that are going to keep California competitive in the long term. Most politicians know this, and they want to help, but they're also oftentimes flooded with messaging from folks that have just built their entire business model around influencing the government. And, You're justifiably not doing that. You're actually working on products, right? You're actually working on things that are going to help people, but incorporate a political and government strategy in your long term thinking. I just, I can't encourage that enough.

Evan Meyer: 21:41

Awesome. Yeah, you, you, you brought up a key word there also, biotech. Biotech is one of many emerging technologies, revolution Revolutionary technologies revolutionary, revolutionizing technologies that are emerging right now. AI, robotics, quantum computing, nuclear energy, biotech, things that are, we've never in humanity, you can only handle one at a time, usually. We're handling like, we're about to handle like 10 at a time, and that's. Kind of the singularity as well, right? And the good news for

Senator Ben Allen: 22:18

you is the government can't even think about these issues fast enough to, to regulate them. No. That, that, there's downsides to that by the way. Cause it leads to abuse. But but there actually is so much opportunity for innovation here. And, and the more you can kind of establish your, your value added before the government comes, gets around to figuring out what to do with you. the better for you.

Evan Meyer: 22:41

Where is California positioning itself right now in terms of these advancements? And, and, and where do you see relate that to the entrepreneurial world in terms of getting involved in creating meaningful impact and so forth?

Senator Ben Allen: 22:52

Yeah. I mean, I think we, as I say, we really pride ourselves on being an innovation hub. We pride ourselves on being the center of the tech industry, the heart of Hollywood, the heart of, of, of so many biosciences. We've invested quite frankly. I mean so much of the investment we put into the University of California and Caltech and Stanford and all of those investments are paying off in ways that have really come to benefit our state. We rely on this creativity, innovation, and, and, and entrepreneurial spirit. And I think we're really proud of it. We want to keep it. We're also worried about our competitiveness. I think we understand our costs are, as I say, our costs are higher, our regulations are higher, our taxes are higher. And we're in this constant push and pull with other states that are trying to steal our businesses. I'm dealing with this right now. I'm working on a big TV film tax credit expansion to help make sure that we keep our competitiveness with TV and film production here. You've seen other states and jurisdictions and countries that are stepping up and really trying to steal a lot of that work. And we've got to offer better incentives. I mean, we know we don't have to match what British Columbia is doing, but we've got to be more competitive. The governor's proposed a doubling of our TV film tax credit. That's a really important thing to do because one of the things that's now starting to happen is that the infrastructure, you know, used to be that people would go off and do these one off productions. Well, now the infrastructure's starting to really build out in places like Louisiana and Georgia and Vancouver and Toronto. And, and, and so now that infrastructure is there, they're having more cinematographers, more people, more grips, folks who know the process. And so we can't just rely on our infrastructural advantages. We now have to provide more financial incentive. And that's just one example of how we, you know, the world continues to move at an incredibly fast pace. And we as a big government with a lot of competing interests. And quite frankly, a lot of poverty too, right? I mean, the state of California has a ton of poverty. People don't, there's a lot of wealth here and a lot of poverty. And so there's a lot of people that spend a lot of time focused on poverty. And that's really appropriate and important. We don't just see that, it's not just the homeless folks, it's also the working poor all over our state. And those are important priorities too. And oftentimes there's a bit of a tension over taxation and social welfare and redistributive policies. And how do we strike that balance to allow for the entrepreneurial innovation and the business growth and the IPOs that have helped to drive our economy and drive our budgets while also making sure that we're taking care of the least among us? And that's another kind of very difficult policy conundrum.

Evan Meyer: 25:19

Last question and then we're going to get to the audience. We'll make this our lightning question. You've seen everyone here, including yourself, is an AI user in some form or another. It's just, I couldn't even imagine living without it at this point. It only took, what, a year or so, and now it's just, it can't go away. What is, does the, what is the government doing in government? Like, what are they doing to embrace that so that they can operate at the same wavelength as the rest of the world and not get behind too fast?

Senator Ben Allen: 25:52

Yeah, probably not enough. I think that that's you know, the gov tech folks are going to be the ones are going to help to bridge the gap here. How do we utilize a I you know, as effectively as private sector is using it. Of course, a lot of our focus has been on where regulation goes. You know, a lot of people see a lot of our a lot of our we talked about Hollywood, right? I mean, you know, our writers And actors see AI as a massive plagiarism scheme. At least, you know, at least aspects of it, right? Where they take their, their hard work and writing and creative skills and, and spit it out with no compensation. So there's all those issues. But you're talking more about how do we incorporate AI into government services and interaction. And I know that's something you worked on both when you were working for the Senate and, and I think you're working on now. The government's slow. And yet you have some innovative, more innovative elected officials that are trying to incorporate it into their work. And you're certainly starting to see it filter into the, the mass systems. I mean, in some respects AI could be incredibly helpful. If you think about, government is the biggest business out there. I mean, we, we've, we're providing. Massive services to healthcare and housing and education. I mean, if you think about the expenditures and the databases and, you know, using smart smart AI technology to help smooth all of that work can, can, can, could really be transformative. And, and, and yet it's going to, it's going to take some really innovative people who are able to both really understand what IEI can offer and also really understand not just what government needs, but how government works. And that's where, you know, folks like you and others are gonna, are gonna be really critical. Awesome,

Evan Meyer: 27:29

thank you. That's my last question. We've got about 15 minutes for questions. Alright, well, the front row, I think, was designated the priority of questions, right? Let's start with Well, we'll get to everybody. We'll get

Audience (2): 27:41

to everyone. Yeah, Moon should be a state. Let's start here. Yeah, that'll be my last question. Your opinion's on Testing, one, two, testing. Okay, we're dialed. Evan, thank you very much. Ben, I really appreciate you coming out here. In the last couple of years, I've written my own voter guides and really tried to understand, you know, what the fuk is going on, especially at the state level. So it's awesome to see someone in the flesh. You don't seem like an NPC. You actually seem like you care about these things. And Evan was singing your praises before, so I really appreciate you taking the time to come out. I do have a few questions about this event yesterday, and a few things jump to my mind that I'm feel really lucky that I can ask you right now. We have the highest LLC renewal costs in the country, 800 a year. What are we doing about that? They're the California defaulted on a federal loan, a COVID loan. We're one of five states in the union that defaults on that loan. And then that loan is Now, the federal government's coming after California businesses to take money from their payroll. My own business got charged at the end of the year. It's not very much. It's a per employee basis. But if you're running a big shop and you have several employees that, you know, a few thousand dollars at the end of the year, it means you're not buying your kids, you know, gifts at the end of the year. So I want to know what happened there. And I'm also the the Palisades Reservoir. If you have any, a couple sentences on why that was empty, I'm really trying to understand what happened there. And also, finally, the, the, you know, we talk a lot about innovation in California, you know, trying to be an amazing place for the, the, the future. And I'm very concerned with some of the Ai, ai legislation that thankfully Newsom vetoed. It's one of the good things he's done. He vetoed Anthony wiener's legislation, which is trying to slow down AI and regulate it. You mentioned you're glad that we're creating all these new things that regulators can even keep up with it. But I would love a situation where the regulators were actually good and if they could keep up with it, it would actually help things and just, you know, quickly, I would love no regulation at all. We just had China come out with deep sea. We're in a hot, cold war right now, like the race is on. I want government to, frankly, stay out of it. I think they shouldn't do anything. And I think we need to go full speed ahead. That's my opinion. I'm curious your thoughts on that. And finally, if you think moon should be the 50, if a moon should be the 51st state of the union. The moon. Yeah. very much. Appreciate it. You've got, you've got your

Evan Meyer: 29:49

work cut out for you there. We'll try to keep these a couple of minutes each so we can get to everybody as well.

Senator Ben Allen: 29:55

Yeah. Well the moon, I mean, no one lives there yet. So, but maybe in the future. Right. I mean, but it was certainly, yeah, you were there for, that's true. It's still next to no one else has been there. Except for the American. So, but it's been a while. Reservoir, you know, a great example of governmental dysfunction, right? I mean, it was about a hundred thousand dollar fix. There was a crack in the reservoir and it was just one of those many. Deferred maintenance projects that just didn't get taken care of. You know, there's a big debate as to how much of a difference that would have made. I think it would have made something of a difference, right? I mean, there would've been a little more water up there for sure, but it probably wouldn't have been that, you know, the, the, the magic bullet that that some people are claiming But it is a good example of how projects, there's a lot of deferred maintenance in the public infrastructure. And that's maybe another thing I could work on. I love your questions about about the COVID loans and the LLC. We we are in the process of paying back the money. We do worry a lot about the posture of the federal government right now. You know, I think under a normal, even Republican president, there wouldn't be some of the questions. That are popping up right now about but but that was, we were in a budget retreat actually yesterday, and one of the topics was, was paying back the money. And I, I wasn't aware that they're clawing back businesses money associated with it. So, I'm going to look into that. I'm also going to look into that LLC cost, 800. I mean, I think that ought to be you know, I wonder if, well, I mean, it shouldn't be zero for Amazon, right? I mean, if it was, if it was incorporated here, which is probably not, yeah. Because there are, there are some administrative costs associated with maintaining the paperwork associated with these corporations. I, again, I, I think it's, it's, I don't, I don't want to see it there's a, there's a, should the taxpayer pay maybe, right? I mean, you know, but, but the flip side is you know, should we make it more reasonable for especially small guys that are just trying to get off the ground when they have a low payroll? I, I do think so. So, I, I'd actually like to. It's the first time it's ever been brought up to me, quite frankly. And I'd love to look into, maybe we can, maybe it can be pro, you know, it could be calibrated based on your size of your business or something like that. But I don't, I don't personally have a problem with Amazon paying a fee to help pay for the, you know, for the incorporation cost.'cause otherwise it would be the taxpayers paying for that. And that may not be fair. But, but your point's well taken. So does that, am I trying to be quick?'cause I know there's about five. Yeah. The last one was ai. Oh, ai. Yeah. So, okay. So I think what we have to do with ai, so the challenge with AI on the regulatory side is we don't wanna do anything that, I don't wanna see us regulate AI in a way that will simply drive the business out of the state. I'm concerned about aspects of ai. I genuinely am. I brought up the issues with plagiarism, you know, with the writers and the actors have been bringing up. And for example, we just passed some legislation that the governor did sign that gave that, that, that, that, that increased the rights of an actor. Whose image and likeness is being utilized in AI. To you know, That's, that was one bill we passed. I, I was at I was at a music studio not too long ago, and they played some music that was so close to the original music that it really becomes an IP violation from my perspective. And again, I don't want to be such a stickler on IP, but the flip side is these are creative people. I mean, I represent, just like I represent a lot of tech people, I also represent a lot of creatives. that their whole lives are based on their creative output. And if they write something that's extraordinary or seeing something, it's extraordinary. And then it just literally gets changed, tweaked by some algorithm. And then all of a sudden they have no compensation associated with it, even though the algorithm is entirely based on their creativity or at least largely based on their creativity. That, that, that about bothers me. So I want to find if I love to find a balance, I also don't want, I will say what Throughout this whole conversation, I don't want to see us regulate AI in a way that simply will offshore the work. If we can truly protect California creatives, I'm very interested in that. But if it's about it, but if it's about just regulating the AI work here, that could just easily pop over to Singapore or Nevada or doing the exact same work. That doesn't help me because the, the, the same policy problems, you know, continue and all we're doing is just kicking those, that goes good jobs and good revenue out of the state. And I think you're right, the governor is acutely aware of how important AI has become as a revenue generator for the tech sector and how incredibly important the tech sector is for the state of California, both our budget and our jobs and our economy. We really follow the NASDAQ very closely from a revenue perspective for us. And so I think that's why you see the reticence. And that's gonna be, that's, but that's gonna ultimately be the debate here. I mean, how do we protect intellectual property and creativity while also not stymie innovation and all the, all the benefits associated with it?

Evan Meyer: 34:46

Awesome. Alright, let's go right here. And then we'll jump to the farther back rows.

Audience (3): 34:51

Okay. Hey I'm building a mining company here. Okay. In California. And just to get land had to Bitcoin or No, real physical mining. Oh, real mining. Try to keep the questions to one all if possible. Just so real mining. That's nice to hear. Yeah. And we had to get land in Nevada to, like, it just didn't make sense to start doing it here. So we had to go get like 20 acres right off the I 15. Okay. So. So, yeah, what's, there's way too much regulation, way too many fees, time, it's, it's just really problematic when it comes to infrastructure, especially land and stuff here, and that's, it's not making it competitive. There's a lot of other things that are great about California, but we've got to fix those if we want to keep, you know, talent and growth here, as I'm sure you know.

Senator Ben Allen: 35:32

Yeah. I mean, certainly, you know, and I got, I mean, just to give you another idea on the toxic waste stuff, our environmental regulations are so strong that we're, we're likely going to be out, we're likely going to be exporting. A lot of that toxic waste in Nevada and Arizona, where they have significantly lower environmental standards, including right next to this Indian reservation. I mean, it's pretty ugly stuff. There's been a lot of journalism on this. It's a really tough balance, right? I mean, California also prides itself on its environmental protection, and mining has been a very dangerous and damaging activity. That doesn't mean that there's not ways to do it that's more environmentally responsible. Can

Audience (3): 36:05

I

Senator Ben Allen: 36:05

say something? Yeah, of

Audience (3): 36:06

course. Offshore mining to countries and other places that have ten times the pollutants. And that's the flip side.

Senator Ben Allen: 36:12

I think you see that also with oil production. You see that with oil production, too. Where we may all, as folks who are concerned about climate change, have a certain degree of antipathy toward the oil industry and want to see a reduction in oil use globally. But your point's well taken. The production of oil within the state of California tends to be a lot cleaner. And unless Solar

Audience (3): 36:34

panels don't grow on trees

Senator Ben Allen: 36:36

either. Right, right. And they also have disposal challenges and all the rest. There is mining in this state, and I mean, I'd love to learn more about your particular circumstances. Oh, cool. Okay, cool. I'd love to learn more about it. Yeah. Awesome. Alright, let's

Evan Meyer: 36:50

jump, he was next, and then we'll

Senator Ben Allen: 36:53

You

Audience: 36:53

can pick. You want to pick, you pick. No, you do the picking. Yes, sir, yes sir. Yeah. Hi. I'm wondering about has there been any talk about Prop 13 and how Prop 13, if I have to buy, if I want to buy a building I'm going to pay paying 10 times as much each year in tax. Compared to somebody that's own has, you know, the assessed value from the seventies. And so this is, this is puts a huge extra cost on us that doesn't exist. It's sort of like California has this, you know, aristocratic real estate tax with prop 13. And, and so it, it does impinge you're like, should I be paying 10 times as much each year? That's just really unfair. Right. And is there any. Talk in that in terms of like, you can help, you know, spur business, new businesses. We have to pay 10 times as much just to start up. So, and it's unfair to young

Senator Ben Allen: 37:46

families. You know, so traditionally prop 13, so prop 13 for folks who don't know as much about it, it basically locks in very low property tax rates and increment for, for when, when, when, when a property is purchased. And, you know, of course it was passed at a time when. Home values were skyrocketing and a lot of people on fixed incomes were basically getting priced out of their homes because of their tax liability, which was pretty ugly. Now, of course it extended to not, while it was written, well, I think it was passed largely to help residential folks. The biggest windfall has been big corporations, right? I mean, Disneyland is still paying their tax increment from. You know, the 70s, you know, from their assessed value in the 70s, and they're paying a much, much lower rate than either of us are paying. And you know, it's funny, I mean, I, I've experienced this in my own family. My parents have had their home since the 70s. I have a much, much more modest home than they do, and yet I'm paying, you know, almost double, triple the tax. So, I think, you know, it's been a, considered the third rail of, of California politics. Nobody wants to touch it, it's so popular, Prop 13. But, like, so many things, I think, on a lot of things we've been talking about. I, I've always struck by how lame the conversation about taxes is in general in America. People want more taxes, they want less taxes. From my perspective, it's how you tax, what you tax, what you tweak, what you incentivize, what you disincentivize. And I would love to see some little tweak, right? A, a, a slightly higher increment for those folks that are, that are, that have their reassessment in return for maybe a slightly lower amount for, for the new reass, you know, new assessments. So there would be kind of an across the board, you know, that would be a bit of a transfer, and I think a lot of people would kick and scream, but if we keep it modest enough, it would still be meaningful to people like you, but also be something that might be, that the folks who are paying a little bit more would be more willing to swallow. I think they're locked in at like a 2 percent annual increase, which is so much lower than inflation. Maybe it could be 2. 25, right? In return, we can, we can provide some tax relief elsewhere. 2. 3, you know, something modest. Not, not a massive revolutionary change that would break the bank, but that could allow for more relief along the lines of what you've been describing. That's what I'd love to see. Yeah, sir. I know we, I'm gonna go faster now because I, we're under time pressure. Yeah. I

Audience (4): 40:00

have one actual question. Yes. It's not a manifesto or a complaint. Okay. So, There's a direct line between what happened in Southern California, the fires and suburban sprawl, big ass SUVs commuting 20, 30 miles each way and generally ignoring the fact that climate change is real. As we're rebuilding, are we is there some provision in California to rebuild in a way that doesn't propagate these same mistakes such that this will happen?

Senator Ben Allen: 40:27

I, I absolutely agree with your, with, with, with the core premise of your question. And I am concerned that there's so much pressure to to just get people back on their feet and rebuilding, which I understand completely. I mean, if you lose, it's easy to, I think it's easy for those of us who haven't lost a home to. think bigger picture, but these are folks that have lost everything and they're so anxious to get going again. The flip side is it would be ridiculous for us to just carry on as though this hadn't happened and just repeat the same mistakes of the past. I mean what shame on us if we rebuild in a way that will just lead to a high likelihood of this happening again for the next generation of people who live in those homes. So certainly I think there should be no compromise on, on strict fire. standards, home hardening, brush, you know, the kind of the defensive space. You know, one thing that we find is that it's also some of it's about a community, right? I mean, you know, community, you can build the most home heart and home in the, in the, in the neighborhood and you may save your house. But if all of your neighbors are not engaging in fire safe practices, you're also still going to be very likely to burn. And so I'm hopeful that I'm so, so I've been advocating as we give more flexibility that we really not. That we, that we, that we not compromise at all on, on fire safety. I also think we should be incentivizing more climate resilient rebuilds. I also think we should treat, I, I, I, I personally think of the, the person who lost their family home, who's trying to rebuild differently than a developer who's coming in, buying the home at a, at a discount and trying to just redevelop the area. I treat them differently. I, I don't think that, that they shouldn't be getting some. Streamlining too, but I would, I would think that maybe we should hold them to a, a, a somewhat higher standard on, on some of the issues that you raised. Because the reason why we're so anxious to let people, to, to streamline right now and drop all the regulations is because we're so sympathetic, we're so empathetic to the folks who lost their family homes. And we don't want to put any barriers in the way, but they, but their situation feels different than someone who's trying to profit. I mean you have, you know, Blackstone, BlackRock moving into Altadena, you know, looking to purchase a lot of homes. And that just feels different to me when it comes to regulatory relief. So, yeah, so that, I, I would say please no compromise on, and I'm saying this to my colleagues at the city council and the county, please no compromise on fire safety and let's incorporate some of the lessons learned. And, and, and then also I think we should be looking to incentivize more climate resilient planning and building in general. You know, I, I, I tend to be, wanted to be a little bit more carrot when it comes to a rebuild. I want to be more stick when it comes to new development. I don't think we should, I think we should be much more circumspect about building new development in very high fire risk zones. You know, we gotta have better planning for water. Not just for the homes, but for the firefighting. We gotta, we gotta have ingress and egress. I did a bill on this topic where if you're gonna build a new big development out in the very high fire risk zones, you gotta have a way in and a way out. Two different ways. So you don't have people frying to death in their cars stuck in a traffic jam like they did in Paradise. Where dozens of people literally couldn't get out. They couldn't get out and they burned to death in their cars. Because there was only one road out of town. In the middle of this very high fire risk zone. And so we've got to be much smarter about, about the way we plan. And then of course we also, you know, we're proud of our leadership role in fighting climate change writ large. And we're very, I'm quite frank, I'm personally very worried about the posture of the federal government on this issue, given what a massive challenge it is for our, our, our, our and, and yet, as you know, California, I think it's going to continue to be an innovator on, on, on, on, on trying to help drive solutions globally on this massive existential problem. And you know, as they say, if you don't believe in climate change, go ask a firefighter. They are, they, they will tell you, even young firefighters will tell you how much worse things have gotten the basic conditions in the last 10 to 15 years as a result of climate change. Yeah. Yes, sir. Hi

Audience (5): 44:14

I think it's so many levels. You know, relative to mine, my brother in law lost their house. Oh, God. I'm sorry. I just found out my live producer from my last show lost three houses. His, his daughters, and his granddaughters. You know, we all have those experiences. I'm involved in our neighborhood council. I'm involved in our community council.

Senator Ben Allen: 44:31

In Venice or Palisades? Well, I'm

Audience (5): 44:32

in Venice. I'm in the council. Yeah. But, but, no, in the Palisades. Yeah. You know, we all know a lot of people. And I keep hearing about the toxic waste, but if I, I build houses, if you tear down your house, you move it away. So no one ever speaks to the idea why it's, why this is, I get the fire may be chemicals, but why is that different than just tearing down a house for one? Two, and I want you to do this the right way, because I really think you're, you're obviously mean well, you go to KI, you're involved in that, you must have grown up in that area. So, then I start to think about, why is it, why is, why is it that, In a way, you're speaking toward, well, here's, you know, in a way what you can do. We have AI. We can actually look at things. You could look at build better bills, but I'm hearing, I'm not hearing action. I'm hearing about the bureaucracy. I know all about the bureaucracy. We all, I think a lot of people in this room do. What's the call to action? What can we do? What can you know, why is, why is it toxic? Why can't my brother in law and my friends just bring up a private company and clear it out? Maybe you're doing the infrastructure while we're building houses, you know, building their houses. That's what's sort of my vague question, but it's sort of generalist.

Senator Ben Allen: 45:39

Yeah. So the, the, the, the difference of course is the incineration, right? So when you, when you burn, you know, when you're, when you're demolishing a house, you're basically taking out the dangerous items and, and, and then demolishing the rest. In this case, our houses are chock full of electronics, of refrigerants, batteries. That are now just literally up in smoke and in the air and all over the ash. In fact, two days after the fire, the L. A. basin had lead levels in the air that were a hundred times normal levels, chlorine levels that were 60 times above normal levels. That was for the whole basin. Imagine what it was like right next to the the fire zone. And that's all in the ash there right now. So there's a lot of stuff. I mean, I'm working on a bill on household hazardous waste. There's a lot of stuff in our homes that are actually, it's actually dangerous stuff. It's not dangerous if it's inert, if it's in a container on the shelf and you use it carefully, but if you literally light it on fire and then breathe in the fumes and have the ash strewn about in your house, it's very dangerous. It's very toxic. So, now, they are letting in contractors now. You know, they, they, they, they needed to get, there were down power lines, there was open gas lines. There was water mains that were shooting up. I went there a couple days after the fire and it's just, it was, the place was crawling with utility workers just trying to shut everything off. So just, they weren't ready to let, you know, general folks come in and start working on their properties. That just wasn't that wasn't a possibility because there was so, it was so much chaos and danger. But now they're letting contractors in. The EPA's already started the toxics cleanup. And it's just, it just takes a while. I think if you get in there, you'll see. I, I, it's hard to describe what a massive undertaking it is if you don't, if you haven't had a chance to walk the, the, the, walk the streets there. Which most people haven't, right? Cause you know, it's dangerous and we can't let everyone in there. And then, of course, we had looters and all sorts of other things happening. In terms of the call to action, are you more talking about the Palisades or are you talking about AI? Or just in general, or both? A little bit of both. I mean the call, well, I, I guess, I mean I've been, lots of calls to action on, on, on the Palisades. We've been raising funds. We've been, we've been you know, getting donations. We've been hosting town halls. We've been trying to pump out as much information as we can and trying to engage as many people as we can. You know, I'm certainly, if there are people that want to talk specifically about how to help,

Audience (5): 48:02

I can bear that a little bit. So like, one of the comments, I called Oliver's example, instead of bringing clothes necessarily, and it came back again so one of the calls I talked to the Italian chiefs who said it's better to give us, you know, credit gift cards to Ralph so he can get a buyer of the food. That's better than a bunch of tapes and clothes showing up at our fire station where we're running a fire. It has long term effect. And then I said to that, like, send that, send parts to your friends, because, and I came back with one of my friends in, in Acton, who said, That's actually great, because I don't even know if I need underwear this morning. Right. So that, that would be kind of a call to action. A house that's burned down, you just helped explain why you can't just get in there with your own contractor. Those are, you know, so what would be the call to action if you can help them? That's kind of, on AI, is how can we use AI? We're in a localized community, whether it's Los Angeles or Palisades or Acton, it's not Acton, it's New York, sorry. Like, how can we use the things that this group is about, aside from building filtered filtration systems in schools, what can we do to actually do it? Yeah,

Senator Ben Allen: 49:15

I mean, I guess it's, it's ultimately about, I mean, I'd want to sit down, I'm not super familiar with everybody's work here and I'd love to kind of get more of an understanding and I think if we had deeper conversations, we could probably get into ways that you could be helpful. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure there's a, you know, 20 different products here, some of which would be much more helpful than others for the work that we do. So I need to get more into the details, I guess, of what's on offer here. And I'm happy to engage. I mean, I'd love to, you know, we could get a little group together and have a chat about it and I'd love to, we'd love brainstorm with you. Yeah. So I, so my, I guess my, yeah, my, my call to action, I guess, is a call for conversation. So we can, so we could talk about how we can work together. I'd love, I'd love to hear the ideas that are on the table. I, and I didn't mean to be too much of a Debbie downer about the bureaucracy, but I've been working in it for awhile and it, It has gotten me down a little bit. Yeah, yeah. So I'm going to take a couple more questions. I know we've got to wrap up, but I want to make sure we at least hear from everybody. But I'd love to talk to you. I'd love to, if you want to get a little group together, let's get together in a couple weeks and have a little round table and just talk about what sort of, just try to bridge some of these gaps and brainstorm together about some of the products that are on offer here that could help.

Audience (5): 50:23

I meant to say, by the way,

Senator Ben Allen: 50:28

Yeah, no, no, I appreciate it. This is fine. Yeah, yes, sir. And then we'll go over here.

Audience (6): 50:32

Hi, thanks for taking these questions. So, for companies that are looking to eventually contract with, let's say, California or like the government would you say, what do you think is the best means to find out if government needs it? And, you know, oftentimes it may be related to a particular, let's say, department that would need it, but they, you know, haven't even told procurement about it, right? There's a little bit of a mapping here, if you have any suggestions as to how we can probably even get anyone who's starting from step zero, like what they should probably be doing.

Senator Ben Allen: 51:07

Okay, that's a great question. And what's the question over here? I'm just wondering how you

Audience: 51:12

begin a public

Senator Ben Allen: 51:13

and

Audience: 51:13

private

Senator Ben Allen: 51:13

partnership. Yeah, and there's similar questions actually, that's great. Okay, any final questions? And I'll still answer these two and then we'll wrap up. Oh yes sir, yeah.

Audience (7): 51:20

I had a question. What kind of support is being offered to like the workers who in general offer services to these burned down areas? Like, House cleaners or yard workers, things like that.

Senator Ben Allen: 51:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's unemployment support. Obviously the workers that are going to be going in there are going to be getting both compensated and also there's a lot of protective equipment that we're giving them. But that's another, that's certainly been a big most of them right now we're assisting with getting on EDD, unemployment insurance. To get some, some kind of backup support. So that's the primary form of support right now. I know there, a lot of them are, you know, there's some different non profit organizations that are out there trying to get, trying to help people find new job placements. And but it's, it's another one of the many problems that we have. And quite frankly, it's probably inadequate. But, but there, there is a, there is the unemployment system that's there to help. You know, these are the questions that you're asking about how to, how to work with the government. It's not an area, quite frankly, so I've been on the legislative side, right? The, the, the, the work. The, the actual work is, is really in the, in the bureaucracy, right? It's in the administration, it's in these agencies. And I'm now actually a budget sub chair, so I'm, people are starting to come to me to talk about procurement in a way that I never, I was always working on bills, which is about policy ideas. So I'm getting deeper into this. I will have probably a much better understanding, I think in about a year, to be able to answer your question. Because I don't, I don't know that I, I don't know that I understand the system well enough to give you a really good answer. I have found that I've tried as I've tried to hook up entrepreneurs, I've generally, it's generally been a frustrating experience for me because sometimes I'll have friends that are doing really cool stuff that I think are really cool and they just kind of run into the wall. There've been a couple examples that have worked out. What I've found is getting, I guess what I would say is, especially if you're small. If you're big, there's a different story. You kind of, you hook into a system that, that is often times Professionalized. They've got a system for government contracts and for grants and engagement procurement. They hire lobbyists. They know how to work the system. If you're small, I would encourage you to start small. So there are lots of the, you know, we started out our conversation with the civics lesson about the decentralization, which actually could be your friend in this respect. Because because we're so decentralized, there are lots of different people at many different levels of government making decisions. The school district. Maybe someone you're not thinking about reaching out to, but they've lost several schools up there and they've got massive problems and challenges and they've got their whole procurement system, not just LA USD, but also smaller schools, including schools like Santa Monica, which may not have had damage done to any of their schools, but but there's a massive influx of new students and there's, there's various challenges associated with air quality because they're so close to the fire zone. So, so thinking about. Instead of just trying to go directly to Governor Newsom, I'm gonna get the best product and you're gonna win, you know, we're gonna get in front of you and you're gonna buy us, you know, thinking about other levels of government, thinking more local you know, getting through to a city council. I mean, Tracy Park, who represents this area, is a very engaged person. She's, she, she's, You know, she's proactive, she listens to people, she's not a bureaucrat, she, you know, I would think that if you come forward with a product that could be helped with the situation, she represents Venice, she also represents, the district includes the Palisades, I would think that, you know, you should have her come in, by the way, and I think it would be fun. She's right here. She is? Okay, alright, great. See, good idea. Yeah, Tracy's great. So, so my, my point is I think she would be an example. And of course she's part of a big bureaucracy too. The LA city of LA is a big bureaucracy, but she's the kind of person that might be inclined to help, you know, help navigate the LA bureaucracy. And she's got more influence within the LA bureaucracy than I have within the state bureaucracy. Cause she's only one of 15 council members. And she's got particular influence over the cleanup effort associated with the Palisades. So I would just say And then, of course, you got to know the process, right? There are people that work on government procurement and you know, and I would just, I would think that, that, you know, having someone who's got experience with government. RFP processes is helpful, you know, having someone who maybe have worked for one of these departments before there, there are, there are companies that consult on this work. And again, I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't ask you that you shouldn't break the bank. You shouldn't spend all your money on this, but I think there's, I think it's worth having some expertise, just like you would never enter into a serious contract without having a lawyer you know, or, or it's, it's good to have someone who knows the process who can help you walk through it and help. Strengthen your, your, your pitch to the government. And so I would, I would you know, but, but again, it's about being proactive. It's about people. It's about not being too, not, not being too discouraged by the, the kind of bureaucracy. So if, if one fire station turns you down, go to the next one and just, you know, and, and try to see if you've got ends, you know, work through someone like Tracy, find people like Tracy within the system that are a little bit more entrepreneurial and a little bit more aggressive and a little bit more willing to take risks and listen to different kinds of ideas. Who's, who's kind of an anti bureaucratic. You know, she, she, she, she, she chafes at the bureaucracy and that's a good thing for you, right? Because you want someone like that who might believe in what you're trying to do and could help you. And I would, I would encourage you to engage with her in her office and her staff if you're trying to help. So anyway, I, I hope this was helpful. I was certainly, you know, great questions. And quite frankly, you know, I appreciate this because, you know, I'm literally in my 11th year. It's really ridiculous. I can't believe I've been doing this this long. You've asked me questions that that I've. You know, some questions that I've got, I've never gotten before. I've usually I come to a town hall, I've heard them all before in the new version. And and quite frankly, I mean, it's both, it kind of gets back to the comments I was making before you know, shame on all of us, I guess. Right. You know, for, for, for we, we politicians need to hear more from your voices and not just the voices of big business and you need to engage more Politicians, right? So, I, I, I really appreciate this conversation. I hope we have further dialogue to talk about ways that AI can be helpful with government. I'd love to brainstorm with you guys. Maybe we can bring on a couple more innovative thought leaders in the, you know, on the government side who, who can help maybe with a little bit more experience on the procurement process. And, and let's talk about it. I love to, I love to help harness some of the energy that I sense in this room. To help solve these big problems. And in the end of the day, it's so easy to just get discouraged by the faceless bureaucracy. And it's ultimately my job to help push through that a little bit and, and, and, and make the system work a little better. And so I welcome that conversation and I hope, I hope we have it soon. And, and and in the end of the day, it's about helping our fellow Californians and make our place, our state, a better place to live. And if you've got products that are going to help with that, I'm all ears and I want to, I want to help facilitate it. So thank you for the discussion. Look forward to our future discussions and appreciate everyone's attention.

Evan Meyer: 58:24

Thank you for for, for, for joining, like everything Ben said. I don't think I have too many closing words here. You guys are great. And we are the entrepreneurs that actually do the things that make the world creative, better, innovative. So keep doing it and we'll see you here next time. And we'll get to, we'll try to make that session happen.