From City Council to Reform Leader: Vijay Luthra on UK Politics, NHS Change & Public Service

In this episode of Meyerside Chats, I sit down with Vijay Luthra—a UK-based public service reformist, ex-councilmember, and management consultant—to explore the future of government, the crisis in public trust, and why systems must evolve to meet 21st-century challenges. We dive into small “p” vs. big “P” politics, the transformation of the NHS, trade unions, and lessons from Brexit for the U.S.

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⏱️ Timestamps / Chapters:

00:00 | 🎙️ Introduction & Welcome
01:00 | Vijay’s Unusual Journey from Roadie to Public Servant
03:00 | Big "P" vs Small "p" Politics Explained
06:00 | The Decline of Public Service Ethos
08:00 | Founding Siva: Reforming Public Services from Outside
10:00 | Entrepreneurship & Bureaucracy: Where They Meet
13:00 | Local Government, Risk, and Innovation Constraints
15:00 | The Power of Local Engagement in the UK & US
17:00 | NHS Transformation: The Biggest Reform in a Generation
20:00 | Virtual Wards & Healthcare Innovation
23:00 | Navigating Trade Unions in the UK
26:00 | Cultural Differences in UK vs US Labor Dynamics
28:00 | Class Systems, Military, and Social Stratification
30:00 | Vijay’s Wish: Undoing Brexit’s Damage
32:00 | Lessons for the U.S.: Division, Democracy & Unity
34:00 | 🔚 Final Thoughts & Closing Remarks

Transcript

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 0:40

Hey everybody. Welcome to my side chats. Today we have Vijay Lura. How are you?

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 0:49

I'm great. Thanks Evan and, uh, really great to join you.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 0:53

It's great to have you. So Vijay you are a an ex government inside government guy and, working for the government in politics. You also have served some time in public service. as an elected representative. you've have a consulting company where you are a public service reformist, which is one of my favorite three words to put together. I think it's fantastic. So great journey. Tell me a little bit about your journey and and where you're at now.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 1:25

Very, very happy to Evan and, and so, so I guess I've come to, to public service from some slightly, a slightly odds direction. I started my, my working life as a, uh, as a roadie. Funnily, funnily enough. But the life of a, a roadie wasn't, wasn't really for me. And I ended up taking a job, working for the Mayor of London and that that was the role that really. Got me into public service. But I guess if I, if I, if I rewind, I, I've all grown up with a bit of a, a public service ethos and my, both of my parents have, spent periods of their life working in, in government in various guises. My, mom, uh, was a teacher for a very long time. my dad was a civil servant before, before he passed away. so. So that. the public service ethos has been there from, from a, from a young, from a young age. I was also politically active from a young age, so, so my parents were activists for a political party in the UK called the, the S stp, the Social Democratic Party, which, which no longer exists. Of UK political history. They split from the Labor Party at the point in time when, when the Labor party was, was very left wing. and so my were activists and, you know, I would go on the campaign trail with them, you know, being pushed around in a, in a push chair.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 2:57

Wow. It's built into your, it's built into your blood.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 3:00

kind of built into my, into my blood. Yeah. But I guess my journey, I spent about a decade as a, as a civil servant in the uk. And then I spent just over another decade in, in management consulting. But all of that time has pretty much been working in government or public service in one form or another. and then as you were kind enough to mention, I also spent. A term, a term in office as a, a city counselor in a part of London called, called which, um, was really interesting. Great. Four years. One of the things it taught me is that politics is, um, difficult and that there is more to politics then the big P of politics. There's also lots of small p politics.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 3:44

Ah, well said. Uh, I like that. Elaborate on that. What's the difference between Big P and small P politics?

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 3:52

Yeah, so, so I think and, and I think, you know, being Anglo, Anglo-Saxon, I. Um, or having many anglosaxon shared views and values that there are probably many similarities between the, the US and UK in terms of how politics work at, at the micro level. And I. So, so small p politics is, you know, the kind of politics of organizations, of groups, of, of people, which is it's about views, values, relationships, grudges, um, hatred. It's, it's, it's more about human emotion than it necessarily is about you know, the, the sort of higher ideals of, of political philosophies. And I guess. I, I was a local counselor and, and in the UK. It's not, it's, it's not the same construct as in the US where I know many of your, your listeners are from. If you're a local counselor in the uk it's a part-time role. You do get paid some money, but you do it alongside your, your day job and, and you represent a much smaller number of people. So, so I represented along with two others about 11,000 people. So, you know, it's a, it's a smaller. It's a smaller commitment than you would undertake in the us. but the time commitment is still very very extensive. And I guess I, I was there at a time when the, the Labor Party, so it was a Labor Party counselor had gone from running this part of London with a very small majority to a very large majority. And when you have a very small majority, unity is essential. when you go to a very large majority, Unity is still essential to get things done, but it becomes more difficult to create unity because that's when you start to get people maneuvering for self-interest or for their own for their own causes. And in fact, I think it's interesting we're starting to see a bit of that in, in, in uk in UK government. There's the prime Minister. Kier has just headed off a big parliamentary rebellion over, over welfare payments. And that's the sort of first, first signs that the unity in, in the labor government is starting to crack.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 6:03

Hmm, interesting. So to some degree, the more unity in thought, the more. Opportunity there is to divert from the policies that would unite you and move more into self-interest. Did I sort of, did I sort of understand, stand that right? Where Unity has this conflict of interest.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 6:25

Yeah, I think it can do I mean, I, I, I'm slightly, Pessimistic about the future of, of politics on both sides of the pond, these these days. One of the reasons why I'm a bit more pessimistic is'cause I think, back to that public service ethos point we were discussing at, at the start, I. I fear a lot of that public service ethos has dissipated away.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 6:52

Hmm.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 6:53

I think self-interest has become a much greater driver in politics on both sides of the pond. I still see a great, a great many people who run for elected office because they want to do the right thing, but I see many, many more,

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 7:10

hmm.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 7:10

Politicians who in my view have gone into it because they're, they're ambitious for themselves. And, and I think,

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 7:18

Does that mean money? Does that, does that mean money and power for themselves? Is that the general couplet of self-interested things?

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 7:26

well I think, I think, well one of the big differences between the UK and the US is that there isn't quite so much money sloshing around in, in, in UK politics. So I would say it's

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 7:36

Hmm.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 7:36

about power. And I think. Reflecting on 20 years ago, you, you may have had maybe 10% of members of Parliament who thought that they were good enough to be Prime Minister. think nowadays it's, it's the reverse. I think 90% of members of Parliament perhaps think that they're good enough to be Prime Minister, and I think. That has had a deep impact on the, the, the culture and relationships that we have in our, in our, in our politics. And I think when people are more self interested, I, I think people, detect that. And, you know, we're having some very similar challenges of, you know, credibility in our in our elected leaders. In, in perhaps a similar way to the challenges that, uh, you're having in the states.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 8:31

Sure. Well, you, you're as, as a public service reformist. You have a company that does some in, in part some health projects and other public cer, local government related projects. Tell me a little bit about some of those and some of the outcomes you're looking to achieve and maybe how that's related to solving some of the stuff that we've just talked about.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 8:51

Yeah. So, so I set the company up so I. As I mentioned, spent, you know, the last sort of 10, 10, 12 years, as a management consultant working mostly in, in big companies. my my view is, is that many of those big companies are no longer operating in the best interests. Of wider society and nor are they operating in, in the interests of of their clients to be, to be frank. So, so when I set up my company Siva that that desire to do the right thing is, you know, we've centered that at the heart of the company. My, my business partner and I, and another reason for setting it up is I think we are globally in the most challenging time. We faced probably since the start of the Cold War. You know, if you reflect on the sort of the, the, the landscape that we are living through at the moment, you know, we have a war on the European mainland for the first time, since the end of the second World War. We have this emerging technologies which are putting lots of different aspects of how we live our lives under, under pressure. Again, in the US and the UK and in, in other places, Canada for example, we have a challenge of aging population and that's putting, huge pressures, not just on our health systems, but but across the, the government and public services landscape. I think the challenge for public services organizations is that they've gotta do more for less. they've gotta be agile, they've gotta be resilient. And so my desire is to help public service organizations build that resilience, that agility, to be able to continue and to thrive as we, as we continue moving into this uncharted territory.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 10:43

Yeah. That's interesting. You know, and it's funny as an entrepreneur myself, you know, being agile and resilient and and fast to adapt and learn, right? Things that are traditionally associated with entrepreneurship or business mindset. I've had a couple conversations about this. Um. One with, uh, mayor Matt Ha Mayhan of, uh, of San Jose here, who, who actually built a civic tech company and sold it. And so he had, and and I asked him a lot about this entrepreneurial mindset in government. He's now the mayor. And I guess my question for you is how do you need to be thinking in government that's. We'll say that's possible because there's some level of bureaucracy that needs to stay as it is for certain important reasons, right? Like, like you, you have to be able to have some level of protect, of protection, of consistent service, right? That, that is just like the system needs to just work. Doesn't always need to be efficient, as long as it works a hundred per 99% of the time or whatever, sometimes, right? They're unwilling to take those risks to, for reduction of service or stuff like that, right? And as a person who's always just like, come on. You know, sometimes, you know, move fast, break things, learn fast, grow, fix it, be agile. Where, what do you think is possible in government with that kind of mentality and where does it sort of end? I.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 12:04

I mean, I mean, I, I think there's, there's a, there's a happy meeting place in the middle between the extremes of entrepreneurial practice and the extremes of of civil, civil service practice. And, and I, I've been in both, I've been in both worlds. And, you know, one of, one of the reasons I left government, working in government in the UK was because I didn't feel, As if I could influence the change I wanted to see from the inside. so I went into consulting in order to be able to to, to drive some of the change I wanted to see. but equally, I think, you know, the worst excesses of the, the entrepreneurial mindset are not right for governments. Uh, a lot of entrepreneurs, for example, have. The, uh, the privilege of being able to focus on a very specific or narrow problem, uh, that there's an entrepreneur here in the uk, guy called Tom Blomfield. He's the, one of the co-founders of a bank, a bank called Monzo a. So he is very wealthy. He, I think it was last year, tweeted something about how he could come in and radically reform government and, and I, and a number of other people. We're, we're quite quick to, to criticize that, that mindset because it's easier. It's easier said than done. I think one of the privileges of being an entrepreneur is, is that you can choose the problem you are gonna point at. Government doesn't always get to choose the problem. It points at. it doesn't get to choose who it can provide services to. So government is often dealing with complex. You know what? In the entrepreneurial world we might call edge cases government doesn't have the ability to say, no, we can't serve those people. They always have to be they always have to be served.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 13:56

Yeah.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 13:57

so, so as I say, I think there's a, there's a happy medium. Where do I think, so government could be less risk averse. And it's not completely risk averse. It's about adjusting a little to be, to be slightly less risk averse. I also think government should be open to, to newer ideas, and certainly. In the uk, if you wanna work with central government and you are a small business, it's incredibly difficult to do that. And that's a lot about risk management. And I think it's probably the same in the us. If you want to work with the federal government it's probably very difficult to actually get through the door, even if you're knocking on the door.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 14:38

Very much. Yeah, I think, well there, there's a cultural attitude, I think, at all layers of government in a little bit of a different capacity. But the big, the bigger it gets, the harder it is to change and things are done some way for some reason. You know, often at the city level, for example, someone sued someone for tripping on the sidewalk. Okay? So now you can't put rocks around your trees on the sidewalk because someone slipped on a rock and they sued the city and they settled. And like so much is built around like cases like that. Especially in the, on the local ordinance level, right? And which is why it's so important for people to get involved at the local level where it matters. You actually. Can get involved. The things you'll see and feel like day to day at the local level, you can actually have your voice heard meaningfully.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 15:26

Yes.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 15:26

And it, it's harder to have your voice heard federally about the Warren in, you know, wherever, right? Like you're, your, the average person's viewpoint on Vladimir Putin is not gonna ring too many. Ears and be like, oh, what a great idea. Right? Like, that's such a smart point. We should change our entire international strategy. Right? But at the local level, the average person can create that change. I'm assuming it's similar in the, in the uk.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 15:58

Yeah, I, I, I mean, I'd definitely say I mean, again, reflecting on my experience as a, as as a city councilor in the uk, one of my, compatriots once said to me that as a, as a local counselor, you have virtually no power, but lots of accountability. And, and that's broadly true because you are accountable to the people you represent, and it's a very direct kind of democracy. Because, you know, I would go, uh, you, you, you know, you, you'd receive feedback during council meetings, formal and also informal, but then also you'd go and be in the community. So whether that was, you know, in the, in, in the uk, we'd do it slightly different to the us. But you know, we, we, we knock on doors, we canvas, we campaign, we seek out people who have, Casework issues they'd like to be resolved. And then we also go to community meetings. So it's, it's often a very direct form of democracy, which, if you are if you are Stan sat in 10 Downing Street, you, you'll get some of that because you still need to see constituents. But I, I'd be surprised if he experienced, the Prime Minister was experiencing the same kind of direct democracy. That, you know, any, any back bench counselor in the UK would, and, and equally by the same token, I imagine the, the president could look out of the window of the Oval Office and probably distantly see some of the protesters out on Pennsylvania Avenue. But, um, how much contact does he have with those, with those protesters or, or those, you know, people seeking to make submissions? I, I would guess it's probably very little.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 17:33

Yeah. Um, are, are there any projects specifically that you're working on right now that you're excited about or that you want to, you wanna talk about that? You think are important.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 17:44

Yeah, I mean we're, we're going through a really big system or systems wide series of changes in, in the UK at the moment. It's, you know, probably the biggest checkup of of public services for, for a generation. I. I like to think the intent is to put those services on a, on a more sound footing. I think many have become very, very fragile. So, so we're doing quite a lot of work in the NHS at at the moment. The work we are doing is typically when NHS, trusts so that the sort of the organizational constructs. Uh, that a hospital or group of hospitals align to, is called a, is called a trust. Um, and typically when this happens periodically in the NHS, when there there's a need to make cost reductions, efficiencies most hospitals will start a, a program of what's called. SIPS cost improvement programs. and so that's happening across the NHS in England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland at the moment. And it's often, it's a very difficult challenging process because it means taking a view on what things are we not gonna do anymore. cases it means reducing staff numbers. I mean, in fact the, the NHS is. a program of redundancy for the first time in a very long time.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 19:12

Hmm.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 19:13

The what we are doing is, so one of the trusts we're working with we're actually, helping them look into the future and to re reinterpret their operating model and to understand, you know, what, what does that operating model need to look like for the future? So the work we're doing with them will save them money. But it's also about optimizing them to be able to deliver services, patient impacts well in, well into the future. So it's a bit more, from my perspective of a positive, um, and more strategic problem that we're helping them solve, rather than just going in there and salami slicing stuff to, to help them save money.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 19:57

Sure. How do you hold. I don't want to know if it's hold them accountable, but how did they hold themselves accountable for, you know, hitting some of those, I'll use the term like KPIs, right? But obviously you're going and trying to make a change. Like okay, you can have more people can be served with less resources to some degree or less money, right? We could be more effective in this approach by changing a few things.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 20:26

Yeah.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 20:26

like what could be one of those things? For example, and, and, and, and how do they make sure that they can stay consistent with those, you know, trying to achieve? And do you set those benchmarks like, we're gonna get from 95 to 99% or stuff like that?

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 20:46

so it's, it's, it's cash and, and, um, what the NHS calls non-cash releasing. So, so some of the. The works that we're doing will will, for example readjust this distrusts organizational design. So org design is an aspect of operating model. It's, but it's the last bit you do because you, you need to understand. How your organization to fit its different component parts together before you then start to work out, well, which boxes do we put people in? So there's a process of redundancy that will go alongside that. That's not our responsibility. It's the, the trust will will do it themselves. But problem we're helping solve is what, you know, what capabilities, what people do you need in your organization of the future. And then you don't need everybody. So. As I say, it's not quite so positive. It's, you know, they'll, they'll lose a few heads. But we're also looking at productivity measures. So, for example, um, the NHS will typically look at things like the, the number of bed days or, uh, what we call length of stay. So the, the amount of time that somebody's been in hospital for and what are the ways in which we can, we can help. Influence those metrics is to do more more in the home. And so there's a concept here called virtual wards. I think what in the US is called hospital at home. And so there's some very promising tech enabled people driven. Solutions around virtual wards where, for example, someone is discharged from a hospital bed a bit earlier to their home, in order to, they'll recover better because they're at home, but. They're not entirely on their own because there'll be a bit of tech to

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 22:40

Mm-hmm.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 22:41

like vitals.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 22:42

Mm-hmm.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 22:42

also be a team of people who will go in to check on that person. Once those people out are out of hospital, they're not as expensive, but they've also released that capacity within the system to do more. And hospitals can bank that in one of two ways. They can either take the cash saving and, you know, if you get enough volume, you can. For example, you might wanna close down a hospital ward, but actually what we generally tend to recommend is take that capacity and do more with it.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 23:12

Yeah. Well, I don't know if you have the, the equivalent of unions in the uk

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 23:18

We do have unions.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 23:19

you have are they called unions?

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 23:21

They're called unions. Yeah.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 23:22

Oh, okay, good. Um, so, and I mean, do they, and, and do the government workers belong to some of those unions where their jobs are protect? So do you deal with the same sort of protection level of, of workers and you can't, you have, you need. Real sufficient reason to take them off staff. Right. Very often. So you probably reorganizing is easier than,

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 23:47

Yeah.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 23:48

cutting people. Right. And probably a lot feels better for the government, I'm guessing.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 23:53

Yeah,

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 23:54

I probably like that. Yeah.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 23:55

I mean, our job is to advise. So we're not dealing directly with the unions, but, you know, I, I've been, I've been a trade union member. I think, you know, trade unions do good work. They're important. I think it's critical to have representation in the workplace. You know, my, the way I advise clients is always to work hand in hand with the unions. I think most of them recognize that we're in, exigent circumstances that something, something needs to change. and, you know, they, they will, are per persuadable. But yeah, I mean, it is, it is more challenging operating in that space. I think, you know, the nature of trade unions between the US and and UK is slightly, slightly different. I think the, the British flavor of trade unionism is perhaps a little bit more a, a, a bit more agreeable in the sense that the, those unions are generally. staffed by people who are used to sitting down with leadership in the organizations to,

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 24:51

Ah, I see.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 24:51

to negotiate overpay settlements and terms and conditions and, and all of those things. So at working level, the, the relationships are, are often, you know, sort of reasonably, reasonably good. Not necessarily warm, but you know, they're, they're effective working relationships.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 25:06

You don't have the same stories that you have in America with unions.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 25:12

Rarely. I think, you know,

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 25:13

Okay.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 25:14

it might get to that extreme, but very rarely in my

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 25:18

Yeah. Okay. That's interesting. That's sort of an interesting nuance to, to that know UK politics.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 25:26

Yeah.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 25:27

Um. Where there's agreeableness, where you, where, where, what can be learned from that? Like why does that really, those relationships work better in the uk? Or, or, or at least tend to be not as divisive. Maybe they're just not as newsworthy. I don't know. But or, or it's just people don't care about getting the headlines as much. I.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 25:49

So, so I think I might be inclined to say it's probably more to do with the differences in culture the US and the uk where, you know, Brits, we, we, we are famous for, for not being terribly confrontational. Right. So, I think, I think that's part of it.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 26:08

Hmm.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 26:10

and I think, but I think also, the, the nature of Trade union membership has, has changed quite dramatically over the last 50 years. It's declined quite rapidly, so unions represent fewer people than they, they would've done, know, even 20, 20 years ago. Um, so their influence has declined a little bit, but there's still powerful forces in politics. You know, most. Uh, uh, trade unions in the UK can affiliate to a political party in a great many affiliate to the Labor Party, and they are therefore the source of quite significant sums of money for, for the Labor Party. So that makes them tremendously influential. But as I say, I think culturally there, there perhaps isn't the same sort of track record of of robust. Perhaps aggressive where things don't go. The union's way, walkout strikes and, and, and things like that. I mean, some of that is illegal in, in the uk You can go on strike. course, you know, the, the right to withdraw your labor is a human right. but there processes that that are wrapped around it to make sure it's, it's done in a, in a legal way. so I don't discount the effects of unions, but I, but I think it's kind of, it's a different a, a a different kind of settlement. And as I say, we, we, as Brits, I think culturally we, we tend to, lean more towards being ag agreeable, agreeable types,

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 27:42

Hmm,

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 27:43

rather

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 27:44

you weren't 200 years ago.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 27:45

We weren't 200 years ago. Well, I, I, I mean, I do wonder to myself, if you, if you think about, um, the, the, the, the, the young men, they would've all been young, young men because there were no women in the military at that time who were marched on the White House and set fire to it. I imagine most of the, the enlisted, all of the enlisted men would've been working class. Or agricultural class at the time. And then they would've been led by members of the middle class and the aristocracy. And we still have a problem with the class system in the United Kingdom, in my opinion. But back then the class system was even more of, of an influence. So, you

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 28:26

Hmm.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 28:26

the, The aristocracy le led the armies, the middle class and managed the armies, and it was the, the agricultural and working class boys who did all the fighting and dying.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 28:40

Is that much different?

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 28:43

Is it much different now? Well, I mean, our armed forces are a great deal, smaller than, than they used to be. Um.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 28:49

Sure.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 28:52

I mean, my reflection would be is, is that from a listed perspective? I think it's probably still a

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 28:56

Similar.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 28:57

a

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 28:57

Yeah.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 28:58

split,

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 28:59

Yeah. That's different conversation probably.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 29:01

I mean,

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 29:02

Yeah,

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 29:02

military's become much, much more professionalized since, since those days

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 29:06

sure.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 29:07

sides of the Atlantic. You know, you can no longer, for example, buy a commission as an officer in the military. You have to go. You know, our, our equivalent of West Point in the UK is, is Sandhurst was actually only about, you know, sort of five, six miles up the road from where I live. So, you know, it's a professional military. It's a very skilled military. And, but yes, those, those sort of divisions are probably, probably still in place.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 29:37

Yeah. What what would you like to impart to if you could and have a magic wish for London right now? Or the UK in general? What, what would that be? And, and I'll take it. Yeah. And then I'm gonna, I'm gonna add a part B to it, which is, what are those lessons and some of those lessons that you would like to give to the US or even the state of California?

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 30:00

Yeah. I think that the, that the sort of the greatest piece of harm the UK has done itself in, in living memory. Um, I. Was to leave the European Union has caused us untold harm. Lot of the issues that we are dealing with at the moment are as a consequence of Brexit. you know, we, we've had many, many years of anemic growth or no growth at all. Partly due. To not being in the European Union, which, you know, let's face it, it's, it's one of the world's biggest single markets. Why wouldn't you want to be in it? can sell stuff to without, without any barriers to doing so. So for us to. Have left that voluntarily was an extremely bad decision. And you know, the polling in the UK reflects that. I think most people recognize it was an extremely bad decision. We lumped COVID on top of that. So you know, our. Uh, economy is still not performing at the level that I think it would've performed, that if we'd still been in the European Union, we could have taken the hit from Brexit and from, uh, from the COVID pandemic. And, know, I think things would've been bad, but they wouldn't have been this bad. I suspect we are navigating our way back to Europe. But it won't be on the same terms that we had before. The UK had very favorable terms. When the European Union, we had a rebate on our uh, on the membership fee we won't get again if we, if we rejoin. So that would probably, that would be my, my biggest wish is that we, we hadn't left the, the European Union.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 31:46

So to come back together is your wish to join. Rejoin or just that you hadn't left.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 31:53

Just that we hadn't left,

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 31:55

Okay.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 31:56

rejoin, but I, I, I think it would be a difficult, experience

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 32:02

Hmm

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 32:03

process. And as I say, we wouldn't get the deal that we had before.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 32:07

mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. Any lessons that you'd want to, seeing what you see from the UK side of things about the US and what we're going through? All the things. name, name your news, headline what would you want to impart to the us And then if you could narrow it down a California you can, if not, don't worry about it. It may be too nuanced, but up to you.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 32:31

So, so, so let me start around the theme of unity. So, so the Brexit, the referendum that we had, which is a rare example of direct democracy in the uk. We are not used to running referendums. That, you know, sort of the famous statistic is that it was 52% in favor of leaving the European Union, 48% against leaving the European Union. But it's become a symbol of division across the uk. It's become a symbol of. To some extent, class division, it's become a symbol of division between Southern England and northern England. It's become a, a symbol of division between England and Scotland. It's become a symbol. of division between, um, the mainland Great Britain and Northern Ireland, it's become a symbol of division between great Britain and, and other, other parts of, of the United Kingdom. So my reflection is, is that it, it also feels to me like the US is very divided right now in, you know, in the same way that. You know, our, civil, civil life is divided in the uk and I think that's a bad thing. You know, I have grown up in an era where I. us, whoever was running it, whether you know Republican or Democrat, always a pretty stable influence power on the world stage. It doesn't feel like that at the moment. And I think the re the, the way or the reason the US has got into the current situation is because of that, that division that you have. So, you know, my wish for the US would be. For, for more unity to come. And if I steer it back to California, I have very high hopes that Governor Newsom, if he, if he runs for the Democratic nomination, might be, might be the man to, to bring that unity. But um, but I think we will, we'll have to see.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 34:35

All right. All right. Hey, um, I really enjoyed our, our time today. Thanks for sharing your perspective. This is great. I, I'm, I'm inspired by the good work you're doing and the service, uh, that you're looking to provide and, and, and support and, and, and having all that experience to help guide all the right things forward. So thank you so much. Stick around just for a minute as we close up the session here. But thank you. It was really, really great chatting with you.

vijay-luthra_1_06-27-2025_161359: 35:01

Thanks so much, Evan. Take care.

evan-meyer_1_06-27-2025_171358: 35:03

All right. All right.